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The Perl 6 Summary for the fortnight ending 2005-11-13

Welcome to another fortnight's worth of summary. We'll get back to a weekly schedule one of these fine days, you see if we don't.

This fortnight in perl6-compiler

There was a surprisingly large amount of activity on the list, but again, the place to look for perl6 compiler news is the Planet Perl Six aggregator.

planetsix.perl.org

PGE improvements and changes

Patrick announced that he'd checked in some major changes to the PGE internals. The changes include a shiny new shift-reduce operator precedence parser which is used to parse the rules themselves. PGE finally has a <p6rule> parsing rule which can be used to parse a valid Perl 6 rule. There are other changes, but those two are the headlines. Patrick asked for the usual questions, comments, patches and tests.

A couple of days later, he posted a more comprehensive overview of the new and shiny bits in PGE.

groups.google.com

groups.google.com

PGE problem with non-greedy quantifiers

Allison fell foul of some changes in the new PGE. This turned out to be a bug in PGE, so Patrick fixed it.

groups.google.com

The meaning of \n and \N

Noting that Synopsis 5 says that '\n now matches a logical (platform independent) newline, not just \012', Patrick asked the list for more details about what that should mean so he could get on and implement it in PGE. He offered up a suggested matching rule. Larry thought that the suggested rule was close enough for jazz.

groups.google.com

[] and () on rule modifiers

Patrick continues to work on the PGE. This time he asked about the behaviour of rule modifiers, with particular reference to the :w modifier. Larry had answers.

groups.google.com

Parrot 0.3.1 "Wart" released

Leo announced the release of Parrot 0.3.1 "Wart", complete with shiny new features like variable sized register frames and no more spilling, a much better PGE (see above) and other goodies. The latest release has more than 3000 tests, and that's probably still not enough.

groups.google.com

Octal in p6rules (and strings)

Patrick Continued his voyage of stringy discovery, this time asking about the black art of specifying glyphs/bytes/whatever using octal notation. He wondered about his assumption that the correct way to do it is with \o123 by analogy with using 0o123 to specify a number in octal. He also wanted confirmation that the \nnn notation had been dropped. A surprisingly long discussion ensued as Larry did a good deal of thinking aloud and Patrick got on with implementing the nailed down bits.

groups.google.com

Meanwhile, in perl6-internals

SWIGging Parrot

John Lenz is one of the developers a SWIG, which started off as the Python equivalent to Perl's XS. He had some questions about writing a SWIG module for parrot and asked if there would be interest in having SWIG be one of the 'official' ways of doing native calls from Parrot. Leo thought not, pointing out that Parrot's NCI is fully dynamic and groovy.

groups.google.com

NCI using ffcall library

Garrett Goebel joined in the ongoing discussion of using ffcall to implement the Parrot NCI (Native Call Interface) by pointing back to an earlier discussion of using libffi to implement the Parrot NCI. Last time round, Dan had pointed out that, because libffi is an external library, there still needs to be a supported (if possibly hackish) way of doing NCI that comes with Parrot, but that configure could probe for external libraries to use where they are available.

groups.google.com

Heredocs in function calls

Patrick wondered if there might be a convenient way to support heredoc parameters in PIR function calls. Nicholas Clark wondered why one would bother since most PIR code should be generated code.

Later on, Leo implemented them. About the only place they don't work now is in macro arguments.

groups.google.com

groups.google.com

Simple register allocation

Summarizing a discussion on IRC, Patrick noted that it would be nice if the PIR compiler had a way to use a very basic register allocation for .subs that only use a small number of registers. After all, there's little point in doing a complex analysis of control flow if a sub uses (say) 5 registers at most. The problem is that this analysis gets harder as the subs get longer (O(n) on the length of the sub). In the case of PGE (for instance), the subs can get very long, with lots of control flow statements, but use a maximum of 10 PMC, 9 int and 4 string registers for the whole thing.

Warnock applies.

groups.google.com

Careful with that bsr Eugene

Leo noted that, with the introduction of variable sized register frames, it is no longer legal to bsr into a different .sub.

groups.google.com

Reconfiguring configure

Joshua Hoblitt sketched out a route map for getting from our current 'built to throw away' configuration system to the sunny uplands of the miniparrot based config system. Everyone who commented sounded positive. Now, if someone could just implement it...

groups.google.com

Shifting right by more than the width of int

Joshua Isam had problems doing a right shift of more than the width of an integer. Which is no surprise really as the behaviour is officially undefined in the C spec, which is the implementation that Parrot uses. There was some discussion, but the consensus is that it's best to stick with the C semantics for integer registers and if the need arises for more complex semantics, it's always possible to write a new PMC.

groups.google.com

Suspend and resume opcode

Tomo sent in a patch implementing suspend and resume opcodes. After a certain amount of kerfuffle involving the mailing list software stripping troff attachments and dodgy software deciding that a .t file full of tests was actually a troff source, Leo rejected the patch and pointed Tomo in the direction of coroutines.

The mailing list will now accept troff attachments. Hurrah.

groups.google.com

Creeping up on ffcall NCI

Nick Glencross posted another update of his work on getting NCI to use the ffcall library. He's now added config smarts to detect the ffcall and other handy features.

groups.google.com

Removing unmaintained languages from parrot tree

Jerry Gay noticed that there were an awful lot of unmaintained languages in the Parrot tree. He recommended getting in touch with their last known authors and eventually removing the dead languages.

groups.google.com

Testing non-core PIR libraries with Parrot::Test

Allison outlined some of the problems she'd been having testing her tree transformation engines outside of the parrot tree. It turns out that Parrot or the Test tool require absolute paths to various libraries, which is no fun at all. She suggested fixing Parrot::Test up so as to try and divine (and set) a sensible load path for Parrot. Meanwhile, chromatic continues to beaver away at implementing Test::More in PIR.

groups.google.com

Updating parrotcode.org

Will Coleda announced that he'd been doing some tidying up of the parrotcode.org website and asked for suggestions for an updated 'where we are' section. Various answers and suggestions were provided.

www.parrotcode.org

find_type considered dubious

Roger Browne was puzzled by the behaviour of the find_type opcode, which works for both PMC types and native Parrot types. He thought that this was both confusing and counter productive. Leo didn't seem to agree with him.

groups.google.com

Unicode strings and encodings

Leo announced that he's going through the various string functions to make them usable with all the string encodings we know about. He outlined what he proposed to do solicited comments in case of insanity.

groups.google.com

Legal names for PMCS

Roger Browne (whose name I keep wanting to use as a Clerihew) wondered what the rules were for naming PMCs. Leo reckoned that, unless someone rejigs pmc2c.pl to mangle non word characters appropriately, a PMC name should follow the same rules as C identifiers.

groups.google.com

string_bitwise_*

Noting that, with ICU installed, parrot has 'rather complete support for Unicode string manipulation', Leo wondered about making the bitwise string manipulations work. In particularly, he wondered how they should behave in the face of charset and/or encoding mismatches. According to Leo, it seems to boil down to a choice between throwing an exception or simply mashing everything together and marking the 'resulting bit mess' as binary. Warnock applies.

groups.google.com

Parrot fink

Will Coleda passed on a query from the #parrot irc channel. Someone had wondered if there was a Fink build of Parrot available. (Fink is an OS X open source package manager along the lines of, well, pretty much every other package manager). There isn't, so Will wondered if there was anyone on the list who could help put one together. Leo noted that Parrot is already Debianized (yay!) which might help with the fink approach too. Joshua Isam worked on the task.

groups.google.com

Changing default STDOUT/STDERR Filehandles for PIR code

One of the things that chromatic needs in order to write a pure PIR version of Parrot::Test is a way to redirect STDOUT and STDERR within a section of PIR code. He's looked at the implementation of the ParrotIO PMC and the print opcode, but can't see where to begin. So, he asked for help. At close of play on Sunday there had been no answer, but I'm sure someone will be along soon.

groups.google.com

PDD20: An idea: Call frames as PMCs

Chip led the applause for Leo's implementation of the new lexical scheme in all of a week. He then went on to outline an idea for turning call frames into PMCs. Leo wasn't sure, pointing out that the call frame would have the same issues as promoting a continuation. I have to confess that I'd tended to assume that the PMC that Chip's proposing already exists, and it's called a continuation.

groups.google.com

:outer("foo") is working

Leo announced that :outer("foo") now works, with a couple of caveats.

groups.google.com

Meanwhile, in perl6-language

Ways to add behaviour

The problem with summarizing an ongoing thread that you've not really been following is getting the context again. I have to confess that, when I returned to the 'Ways to add behaviour' thread this week I was somewhat stumped. Thomas Sandlass and Larry appeared to be having fun with terminology and type algebra. I'm sure that we'll end up with a more robust language as a result of all this, but it doesn't mean I could follow the discussion as it was happening.

groups.google.com

$_ defaulting for mutating ops

Remember last time? Juerd had proposed that mutating ops like ++ default to mutating $_ in the absence of a left hand argument. It seems that the discussion convinced Juerd that it wasn't a good idea after all. But, this being perl6-language, it also seemed to convince others that it is a good idea.

groups.google.com

Role method conflicts and disambiguation

Discussion of how to handle conflicting role methods and their disambiguation continued. Unless I'm going soft in the head, I could have sworn that the original Smalltalk 'Traits' paper (they're called Roles in Perl 6 because we already have Traits) dealt with disambiguation in a fairly straightforward fashion. I continue to be reminded of the same joke as last week.

groups.google.com

Co/contra variance of roles/factories in theory.pod

Err... I haven't the faintest idea what Luke and Thomas Sandlass are talking about here. Luckily, it seems that Larry did understand it.

groups.google.com

Perl 6 perlplexities

Michele Dondi worries that the increase in complexity of some aspects of Perl 6 is much bigger than the increase in functionality that the complexity buys us. In particular Michele is concerned that the Perl 6 parameter passing and signature stuff is going to be a big loss. People mostly disagreed with him. Rob Kinyon made a remark that chimed strongly with me, pointing out that Ruby's OO system is substantially more complex than Perl 5's, but that it's also a great deal easier to use. (Rob's not alone in this, I am writing most of my new OO code in Ruby. I fully expect to switch back to Perl 6 as soon as it becomes good enough though).

Lots of good discussion here. I was convinced once again that Perl 6's signatures are going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Even if I do still like Smalltalk method selectors best of all.

groups.google.com

Implicitly doing a role

If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, does it make a sound? If a class implements the same interface as a role without saying that it does, does it still do the role? One of these philosophical questions was asked by Austin Frank. The other is a timeless wossname. Can you guess which is which?

Rob Kinyon thought that the answer to the second question was 'no'. So did chromatic, citing the usual Dog/Tree problem with 'bark'. After further thought, chromatic proposed that a class *should* create an implicit empty role of the same name to make things easy for people writing mock objects and other entertainingly different variants of the original class.

Decorated Dog anyone?

groups.google.com

The new class sigil

Remember when the new class sigil was going to be \xA2? Well, we're still getting one, but it's called ^ now. I think.

groups.google.com

Private methods and role composition

Jonathan Lang wondered if there was a way of declaring a method as private to a role, and a role could reclassify a composed method as private. Larry answered 'yes' to the first question and 'no' to the second.

groups.google.com

=>'s container and binding semantics

Ingo Blechschmidt had some questions about modifying pair keys and values and about the semantics of binding to a pair value. Larry had answers. And interesting implicit questions.

groups.google.com

Default values for instance variables

Gaal Yahas thinks it'd be nice to supply default values to instance variables at declaration time. Luke pointed out that it is actually legal to do just that in Perl 6, but that pugs doesn't yet implement it.

groups.google.com

Proposal: rename 'subtype' declarator to 'set'

Undeterred by the fact that the OED has eight distinct headword entries for 'set', covering four different parts of speech and a prefix form, Thomas Sandlass proposed changing the subtype declarator to set. Larry agreed that it might be a way forward, but worried about interference between the declarative form and the verb 'to set'. Stuart Cook thought that 'subset' might be slightly less confusing, but Eric the Surnameless thought that that would be more confusing.

groups.google.com

Test case: Complex numbers

Jonathan Lang posted a skeleton implementation of complex numbers and their associated arithmetic to the list as a possible test case of various Perl 6 goodies. Luke and Larry both offered comments and suggestions.

groups.google.com

Given too little

Gaal Yahas seems to have found a possible bug in pugs when using when with an expression that returns a boolean. It turns out that this might be a bug in the spec. Getting the semantics of ~~ nailed down so that when always does the Right Thing is Hard. Larry's working on it. One fix seems to be to shove the conditional code into a block. The block is then evaluated (possibly with the $_ as an argument) and ~~ returns true if the block returns true.

groups.google.com

What's the latest on Iterators

Joe Gottman is worried that the various synopses make plenty of references to Iterators, but that Iterators aren't actually defined anywhere. He asked for clarification. Larry supplied some, and, after some prompting from St\xE9phane Payrard declared that Perl 6's would do lazy evaluation by default, would guarantee some kind left to right evaluation, and that, if all else failed the ** steamroller would make things eager again.

groups.google.com

Acknowledgements, apologies and everything else

Matt Fowles was on holiday last week, and didn't have time to write a summary. Hopefully he was having a fabulous time instead. We hope to be back on a weekly schedule from next week.

Thanks to the people who contacted me last week. I am still looking for work, but I also have some leads to follow up on, which is a start. The summaries are still looking for a sponsor though; if you're interested drop me or Matt a line, we'd be delighted to hear from you.

Help Chip

geeksunite.org -- Chip still needs help.

The usual coda

If you find these summaries useful or enjoyable, please consider contributing to the Perl Foundation to help support the development of Perl.

donate.perl-foundation.org -- The Perl Foundation

dev.perl.org -- Perl 6 Development site

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www.bofh.org.uk

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