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To see what is currently happening visit http://www.perl6.org/
Whoa! Deja vu! Where'd Matt go?
Don't worry, Matt's still writing summaries. As you may have noticed, Matt's been writing summaries every two weeks. And now so am I. Because we love you, we've decided to arrange things so I write summaries in the weeks when Matt doesn't. We could do it the other way, but that could be seen by some as self-defeating. Heck, when I say 'some' I probably mean 'all'.
So, bear with me while I remember how to type all those accented characters and get back into the swing of writing these things (and of reading everything in the mailing lists once more -- someone should write a summary for us summarizers...)
I'll be sticking to my old 'lists in alphabetical order' scheme of writing summaries. So, let's get going
Lev Selector asked for confirmation that Pugs didn't support compound data
@ar.last. Autrijus and others confirmed that
they didn't then, but they do now.
Darren Duncan pointed out that, whilst last week's summary had claimed he was working on implementing MakeMaker in Perl 6 which is, sadly not the case. He reckoned he'd possibly look into it again when he had tuits and Pugs was more complete (supporting objects, for instance).
Roie Marianer pointed out what looks like some weirdness in Pugs' parsing of lexically scoped subroutines. Warnock applies.
John Macdonald asked for people who wanted to come to the YAPC::NA pugs hackathon to get in touch with him beforehand as spaces there are limited. If you're interested, drop him a line.
Andrew Savige noticed some weirdness in pugs's slicing behaviour. He posted some example code showing the problem. Autrijus agreed that there was a problem and explained that he was in the process of rewriting all the variable types, symbol tables and casting rules to agree with the Perl 5 model as described in perltie.pod. The rewrite is currently failing tests, so he posted a patch for people who want to play. On Sunday, he bit the bullet and committed the entire 2500 line patch which 'touches pretty much all evaluator code'.
autrijus.org -- Autrijus's patch
use.perl.org -- Autrijus on the patch
William Coleda has been trying to add Unicode support to his TCL implementation and he fell across issues with missing methods in charset/unicode.h. Leo waved a magic wand and checked in an implementation which he fenced about with disclaimers.
Nicholas Clark confessed that Ponie had been pretty much stalled for some time, but sweetened the pill by announcing that it's about to restart and that he would be able to allocate at least one day a week to the project. He pointed people at the Ponie roadmap which breaks down the required tasks between here and a first release, complete with time estimates. If you're interested in getting Ponie to a ridable state, this would be a good place to start.
People were pleased.
opensource.fotango.com -- Ponie intro/roadmap
Chip donned his "Fearless Leader" hat and announced that, effective, Parrot would be moving to a monthly release schedule (with an initial three week 'month' to get things into sync). There was some debate about whether Solaris/SPARC should be one of the officially required monthly release platforms (darwin, linux-x86-gcc3.* and win32-ms-cl were Chip's initial blessed three). This morphed into a discussion of Tinderbox; apparently there are cool things happening behind the scenes.
What do you know? You go away for n months and when you come back people are still talking about calling conventions.
William Coleda announced that he was starting work on removing the core's dependence on Perl* PMCs in favour of using language agnostic PMCs internally and loading the Perl ones dynamically as required. Everything but PerlArray was dealt with quickly and names and ways forward with that tricky case were discussed. It looks like we're going to have a 'ResizablePMCArray' added to the core once people have the tuits.
Another discussion that wouldn't go away back when I was last writing summaries has come to a head. Parrot's finally migrating from CVS to Subversion. By the time you read this, Parrot's main repository should be at svn.perl.org Hurrah!
There were, of course, wrinkles to be ironed out.
www.parrotcode.org -- Getting started with subverted Parrot
Matt Diephouse wondered if, now that IMCC has been integrated with Parrot, we really needed the imcc/ subdirectory. He suggested that maybe its contents should be distributed about the rest of the parrot directory structure. MrJoltCola (Melvin Smith?) thought it was best kept separate and thought of as a front end. Bernhard Schmalhofer pointed out PAST, another Parrot frontend and suggested that it may make sense to refactor imcc/main.c into (he suggests) src/main.c and imcc/frontend.c, which would make the distinction rather clearer and provide an opportunity to clean up the exported symbols. Leo pretty much agreed with Melvin (no comment on Bernhard's suggestions yet though).
Leo looked for volunteers to rejig t/src/manifest.t to use .svn/Entries instead of CVS/Entries when checking the MANIFEST. Michael Schwern (possibly accidentally) volunteered.
A quick note about notation. I've started borrowing notation from Ruby/Smalltalk to discuss methods. Where I write SomeClass#method, then I am referring to an instance method of SomeClass and where I write SomeClass.method I am referring to a class method.
By heck but I've not been keeping up.
I started understanding what was going on when people started talking about implicit dereferencing of long chains of references. Larry's saying that even if $foo is a reference to a reference to a reference to a... to "10" then $$foo will chase all the way along the reference chain and evaluate to "10". The general response seemed to be "Wah! How do I make it not do that?".
groups.google.com -- how to help Larry
Ovid wondered if
According to Luke, it should default to the current topic.
Wolverian's been looking at the Perl 5 debugger and wondered if it would be possible to add an eval method to objects that represent scopes. The idea being that
$scope.eval 'say $foo'
say $foo with all of
$scope's bindings etc in place (I
$scope.eval 'return' would do...). At least, that's what I
think he meant. Others asked for clarification. Wolverian also wanted to know
how to get hold of a scope's continuation (or at least the current
continuation). Larry has in the past said that he wouldn't be exposing
continuations in the core language. Others have noted that it wouldn't be
beyond the bounds of possibility to write a Parrot level module which would
expose them though.
Stevan Little had some questions about the behaviour of Pair#kv method. Luke came through with the answer (when all else fails, consider the pair to be a one-element hash'.
Prompted by a suggestion from Tim Bunce, Ovid started porting the examples in the Perl Cookbook into idiomatic Perl 6. He asked for comments and suggestions on how to proceed.
Marcus Adair proposed, and Luke Palmer strongly seconded, moving the development of the code onto a mediawiki (wikipedia) style Wiki which has good support for 'offline' discussion of code as it's developed. Autrijus reckoned that his current practise of handing out SVN committer bits to anyone who expressed an interest and leaving discussion in the files themselves seems to be working pretty well so far. He pointed at pugs.kwiki.org though.
Bryan Ingerson posted a preliminary cut of Synopsis 26 and asked for comments. Yuval Kogman pointed out that the docs subdirectory of the pugs distribution is filled with documentation that needed proofreading and nitpicking. Go to it people.
Ovid wondered what
($x,$y) := ($y, $x)
Juerd reckoned the answer is straightforward, and I must say I agree with him.
Marcus Adair argued that it seems natural that String#chars, when used in a list context, should return a list of the Unicode chars in the string. Opinion seemed to favour the idea, but there's been no ruling from Larry (or anyone else on the Design Team).
David Vergin wondered if Perl 6 would have an equivalent of
which would give sensible names to the various magic globals (those that hadn't
been otherwise eliminated at least). Answer: Yes and No. There will be no
English.pm module, but the magic globals will all have English names by
Marcus Adair wondered about the use of Heredocs as positional parameters. Luke
confirmed that they should work just like they do in Perl 5, modulo minor
matters of spelling (they're now spelled
qq::to/END/ etc...) and whitespace
Luke pointed out that
my @a = (1,2,3,4); my @b = @a[1...]; say [email protected];
is potentially problematic (he argues it should print out '3', but Perl 5 semantics imply that it should print 'Inf'). He proposed breaking with the Perl 5 way. Autrijus agreed with him and has implemented his proposal in pugs.
If you find these summaries useful or enjoyable, please consider contributing to the Perl Foundation to help support the development of Perl.
donate.perl-foundation.org -- The Perl Foundation
dev.perl.org -- Perl 6 Development site
Or, you can check out my website. Maybe now I'm back writing stuff I'll start updating it.
Vaguely pretty photos by me can be found at:
And that's quite enough shameless self-promotion. See you in two weeks.